The fellow who writes Captain's quarters is so far of the truth it begs a reply. His misuse of Second World War history by selective use of examples and distortions, regarding the treatment of American POWs in the European Theatre of War is just plain bullshit. I am not into censorship – show me a true picture of Ann Coulter nekkid anytime – but this guy's comments I believe drags down this site.

Well, the only thing GI Zhou and I agree within the first paragraph of his comments is a shared desire to see naked pictures of Ann Coulter.  After that we must part ways. 

If you do not follow the Geneva Conventions you become as bad the terrorists/insurgents themselves and further risk alienating a somewhat hostile population depending on the situation – I'm just not talking Iraq here. First time I heard that the Germans routinely shot pilots in the Second World War, I'm not saying there weren't isolated examples, it wasn't the norm. He neglected to mention the German treatment of captured Russians in the Second World War and even in the Second Wworld war, the Allies respected the Geneva Conventions regarding treatment of Japanese POWs.

First, I feel quite certain that no American, British or even Aussie aviator ever took solace in the fact that they were an anomaly, before being shot execution style in the forehead.  Just because it is the “first time you heard it” is not sufficient reason to dismiss the claim.  Also, if he “neglected to mention the German treatment of captured Russians in the Second World War”, I can only imagine that it was because they suffered worse treatment than their Americans and Brittish Allies.  I don’t follow what point you wish to prove here.

When you say, “If you do not follow the Geneva Conventions you become as bad the terrorists/insurgents themselves”, you imply that we do not, or may not in the future.  I would suggest that the prisoners at Club Gitmo are treated with kid gloves.  Literally!  Our guards hand the Koran to them wearing gloves.  This is before and after serving them meals prepared under the direction of dieticians trained in the Islamic requirements of the prisoner’s daily regimen.

Your acknowledgement that the Allies respected the Geneva Conventions regarding treatment of Japanese POWs is fine and dandy.  You unfortunately fall short of acknowledging that this was not a two way street.

This guy needs a good case of STFU when it comes to this (I doubt if this guy was ever in uniform), as comments like these aid an enemy ( including leftist arseholes in Europe) by exposing 'what the Americans are really like'. I just love the way people who haven't been in the military tell the military what it is doing wrong. If it was so damn easy most militaries would have done it already.

I haven’t been to CQ enough to know if he is ex-military or not.  I personally don’t think it matters.  He is not stating that the military is doing anything wrong; instead he is questioning the politics of a couple of U.S. Senators and ex-Secretary of State.  So be it that a couple of them are ex-military and one is an ex-POW.  That does not make them untouchables.

In summation:

1. The U.S. has always held and will continue to hold a higher standard in the treatment of POWs than our enemies.
2. To suggest that any actions routinely taken by U.S. forces or the CIA makes us as bad as the terrorist/insurgents that film the beheading of innocent civilians for broadcast on Al-Jazeera is insulting as well as ridiculous.
3. To believe that the Jihadists are concerned with the Geneva Conventions, is tantamount to believing in Santa Clause.
4. Any attempt to tighten and clarify Common Article 3 of the GC should be welcomed by the West.  While it will have no affect on how our enemies treat our troops, it will provide necessary guidance to our troops and JAG officers.

In the end, Americans should recognize that we are the object of intense hatred throughout the world by our enemies and allies alike.  I would ask GI Zhou and others; just why should we give a good flying F%#@ about what the rest of the world thinks?  While we continue to debate how gently we treat detainees, the Jihadist will continue to behead, maim and torture without fear of recourse.  While we send billions in aid to victims of tidal waves and earthquakes, only to have the honor of wiping their spittle from our faces as our “thank you”, our enemies plan to annihilate us before they can be brought before a world court to be held accountable for their atrocities. This dog finds little reason to worry about how the rest of the world will perceive our process to determine how best to coddle our captured enemy. 

I just love the way people who haven't been in the military tell the military what it is doing wrong.

I just love the way people who aren’t American presume to tell America what she is doing wrong.

*** 2006.09.16.00:43

See also Remind me why I liked Powell and the comments there.

Contributed by The Gray Dog on September 15, 2006 at 08:19 PM in Caring about our troops, Current Affairs, John McCain, Open Posts, Politics, The Gray Dog | Permalink

Comments

Posted by: GI Zhou

I am not telling the US military what it is doing wrong it's not the US military anyway the has to ratify the Geneva Convention - it is Congress and the Senate. I myself have said the worst type of war is coalition having been an international military liaison officer with non-Western forces including Arab. You have to understand the war in Afghanistan is made up of a coalition of militaries, most of whose nations have signed and ratified the protocols additional to the Geneva Convention and view the operation of the war differently in respect to insurgnets.

These coalition forces have to answer to their own governments and people so it is in the US Government's interest to make sure that the Taliban are accorded status under the Geneva Conventions - Al Qaeda can go to hell and are not covered as they are a non-state player thus don't have protection under the protocols as they do not have a political structure or political aim, do not have a uniform and do not carry their arms openly.

The US needs its allies in what will be along drawn out war, and thus needs to understand how other nations perceive insurgents as opposed to terrorists. If it means treating the people it Club Gitmo humanely so the voters in Europe will be happy, so be it.

Jihadists have been around since Mohammed's time, or shortly after, so their methods and ideology are well understood. I myself studied them long before it was popular as Islamic politics was affecting the British Empire in the 1920s and 30s.

I am looking form a different viewpoint - the ADF was involved in insurgent conflicts before Vietnam and by treating insurgent POWs with respect and dignity was able to get far more useful information than rougher methods. Also we aren't the biggest gorilla in the area so we have to depend on allies for assistance as in our operations in East Timor.

Finally I didn't mention Japanese atrocities against our forces in the Second World War and the Chinese from 1931 to 1935, as it is a given. Incidently the Japanese are reckoned by the Russians to have treated Red Army soldiers and the peasantry worse than many of the White armies during the Russian Civil war and its aftermath.

My thoughts anyway.

Posted by: GI Zhou | Sep 20, 2006 1:42:20 AM

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